Thread of the day…
I wrote:
Sticking with Deano’s plan is all well and good. But he’s hardly above reproach. He’s made some serious blunders. And when he starts talking like this, he puts some of you fans in a trance. That sly little reference to it being the 2nd year is amazing. I actually think he believes that.
The fact is, these losing streaks are not “normal with new expectations” or “part of the plan” or “needed to help with mental toughness.” They indicate that there is a problem with the team. They have holes that aren’t filled and possibly leadership issues that are hardly transient. It means, Dean, that you haven’t done your job.
Here’s the hypnotic breakdown:
1st Question: Fan platitudes: made some of you feel good.
2nd Question: Psychology 101 BS: Mental, yes. Tough? Not so much.
3rd Question: Sure, he’ll make a trade but he’s not going to act like he needs to
4th Question: “I’ve been fired before so it’s no the end of the world. I won’t panic.” FYI Deano, you’re not above it all, you’re in the THICK of it. Stop reminiscing about your mentors and start taking action.
5th Question: The obscenity line takes the cake. Vintage Lombardi talking complete nonsense. “Know it when you see it?” Wow. Yes, we do. FYI, the critical teaching moment took place during the playoffs last year. It amazes me how he won’t take any responsibility for getting a guy like Ponikarovsky or a oft injured Mitchell & Sturm. They are not the answers to the holes.
6th Question: Contracts. I started falling asleep here
7th Question: Yes, we know you are trying to build a winning culture here. But with that, the excuses have to stop. This whole projection about mental toughness says more about Dean Lombardi than it does the Kings.
He talks as if the team is one person when mental toughness is actually very individual. When a team knows it can play with the best in the league (as the Kings do) and then goes through these ‘spikes’ it says more about leadership than it does this “Cinderella fell” crap.
Sure, a lot of us fans have to get over ourselves. On the other hand, so does DL. I know why he does it (because publicly he has to) but to talk like this downturn is expected and all part of the plan is no less than complete BS.
There is no correlation whatsoever to his supposed “on track” mumbo jumbo and what this year is shaping up to be. I remember distinctly before last season started, he had such low expectations. Playoffs were not on the radar and that the year was going to be really tough for them. They were going to “learn how to be a team.”
Of course, when they achieved success beyond expectation, now they are right on track again because they have to learn to struggle! Total crap, psychology 101 lameness.
Again, I know why he’s saying it. He must look strong and appease season ticket holders. But it doesn’t make what he’s saying true at all. It just makes him look like he’s dancing around some serious issues with this team.
Remember folks: Losing like were are is never part of any plan after 6 years as GM. That’s 6 years, not 2.
The rest of the convo went like this…
jofa6000 Reply:
January 19th, 2011 at 11:46 am
@wavesinair, i think he ment 1 year, 2nd year as in making the playoffs.
wavesinair Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 11:53 am
@jofa6000,
The fact that everyone on here is guessing what he meant is my point. It’s sly. It’s ineffectual. It’s intended to appease you.
I know exactly what he meant. And if you read what I wrote, it still doesn’t make sense because last year he didn’t think we would make the playoffs!!! Get it?
So if that’s true, then wouldn’t this be the 1st year we make the playoffs? Look, it’s simple. Dean Lombardi did not come into this season thinking, “Gee, this is the year we fall backwards and learn mental toughness.” No, no, no! Just use simple logic and stop believe the hype.
Again, you might think I’m a DL hater, but you’d be mistaken. I love the overall plan. What I don’t love is when he acts like he knew all along what is going to happen when I know the truth. The truth is, he has made some serious mistakes and he needs to feel that pressure from fans to do better.
Right? It’s not too much to ask that he take responsibility for his blunders.
Dave Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 11:48 am
@wavesinair, DL is not interested in a Tampa Bay or Carolina kind of run to the Cup. that’s not his way. He is trying to build another Detroit. A team that competes for the Cup every year, that has a culture of winning. You can’t do that by going for it every year and emptying the cupboards. this team is not ready to make that run yet as much as we want it to be. personally, i don’t think TM is the guy to take the team there and there are still a couple of pieces missing.
with Schenn and Lokti ready for full-time duty next year and Williams and Handzus and Sturm and Poni coming off the books, DL can hopefully add the pieces he needs.
the defense is pretty much set with Doughty-Scuderi and Johnson-Mitchell and Greene. He needs to pick a #6 and #7 out of voynov, hickey, martinez, muzzin and a few others and everyone else can be used as bait.
there is a solid group of forwards in kopitar, brown, simmonds, lewis, clifford to add schenn and lokti to and has some role players like richardson and parse to work with.
he has jones playing lights out in Manchester and potentially will have 3 NHL ready goalies in camp next year all under the age of 25.
i don’t like looking at next year only half way through this year but DL has set this team up to be good for quite a while. now he needs to find his coach and the players need to preform.
wavesinair Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 11:58 am
@Dave, Dude. Please. You’re telling me this? I’ve been been waiting for a true rebuild for over 20 years. I know the plan. I like the plan. I’m all in favor of the friggin plan. What I don’t like is the platitudes and bad acting on the part of our GM. He his totally aware that there is no way on earth he could have predicted last year or this year. No one can. So when he acts like it’s part of the plan, it needs to be pointed out as BS. I want some humility from the guy. I want some public acknowledgment that he is disappointed and not above it all and that it isn’t only the team, but HIM that has to do better.
number 6 Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 12:12 pm
@wavesinair,
Waves…. here is my issue. I keep hearing them being referred to as a young team. When does that stop?! Simmer is in his third year. Ditto for JJ. Kopi is young but very experienced. Clifford, yes he’s young but that sort of player won’t determine at this point a team’s future. So is Martinez I think but all teams have rookies.
Drew D is young for sure and that’s a whole other issue, but there is a lot of veteran presence on this team: Greene, Smyth, JW, Stoll, Handzus, Scuds, Poni, Sturm and at this point even Brown.
This is my Constructive criticism. When you grow up playing a sport, there has to be a moment where you use your intelligence and make what TM calls the ‘right’ plays. Are you always going to make them? Of course not. You stop taking stupid penalties. Are you never going to take penalties? Of course that’s not the case…. but constant undisciplined penalties.
There has to be a point where you take responsibility for these things and a point where you show up for every 45 seconds of the shifts you take during the game. That doesn’t mean you’re gonna get it right all the time. No human being does. But when it’s a constant recurring issue, I’m not certain how much has to do with the other teams taking you more seriously. Just because they take you seriously doesn’t mean you take Three delay of game penalties over a period of two games… or needless hooking and elbowing penalties. The refs can be very severe with these things. Rather than saying ‘oh, that was a cheap call’ just KNOW that the refs are likely to call slashes and elbows and deal with it!!
King o’ Philly Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 12:25 pm
@wavesinair,
i’m with you on the DL hocus-pocus, man. dig this quote:
“What I found in San Jose, when we were building, is that the second year is always the toughest.”
ALWAYS? how many second years in row were there…?? he’s just basically saying the kings suck in their first year with legitimate expectations. because the team is young, and he’s made bad deals, and the coach is dull and dump-and chase is all we can really handle talent-wise. all true, but he REFUSES TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY… OH, IT’S JUST YEAR 2 BLUES. what a joke.
he’s a bit of a flim-flam man
rmartin1951 Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 11:54 am
@wavesinair, I agree. Admit the plan is a failure so far. Maybe players in Juniors will help in two or three years.Moller Loktionov and Voynov should now be tested at NHL level so you know if they can play. This team is too slow to ever
win more than one round in the playoffs. Handzus,Smyth, and Greene should all be offered at trade deadline than replaced with these younger players. If you cant play in the nhl after two or three season in Manchester you rarely make it. We than should move on to new players. We have a history of dumping good players without finding out that they can play. Boyle and Moulson are both better than half our forward players. Timmonen way better than most of our defense. Jared Smithson good enough to play for Nashville are a few recent examples. Jason Blake a name from the past who received the same treatment. Poni is worthless and should be placed on waivers now.
GreyPaws Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
@wavesinair,
We were early last year anyway, pop some chill pills and wait it out, we still look better than we did post lockout, that’s all I care about. My bro and I saved money for a few months to buy a 12 game pack during that season, we sat in section 219, I think we only saw 3 wins from our whole 12 game pack. I remember being up 4-1 in the second and hearing an opposing fan whine about how badly his team was doing, I told him to not worry, cause they were playing the Kings, we lost that game 6-4, the fan I told that to bought me and my bro a drink after the game. We finished 29th that year I think… Clutier was still with us, im getting over a cold so memory doesn’t serve me quite right.
scvking Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 12:07 pm
@wavesinair,
I certainly get the frustrations, attitudes and “what the hell” moments a lot of the fans are having, nor am I immune to them at all times.
That being said, I honestly understand what DL is saying here. This team is not being built on a plan of lets get good in 2 years and try to win a cup. This team is being built for the 10-year serious competitor franchise. Part of that IS the mental toughness that DL feels the team is learning through the tough stretches.
DL has in no way ever said that the team is complete or without holes. We have shortcommings, and they will be addressed at some point. Do I wish they were already filled? Absolutely, but not in a way that creates other holes.
DL appears to feel that within the next few years, we will have the core of Kopi, Doughty, JJ, Simmonds and Brown who have figured out the way, and the followers with Schenn, Lokti, etc. and a group that is just as good on the way. That has been the “plan” for as long as DL has been here.
Is it happening as fast as we would like it to happen? Doubt many would think so. But, I absolutely think that learning to win is a developed mental part of being a winner.
Is DL “dancing around issues”? Hardly. I think he knows that this team had issues and is not entirely surprised that they have become apparent, although I suspect he is certainly disappointed that they have in such obvious fashion.
I am hardly a Polyanna fan here, but I have been around sports long enough and in various capacities that I actually think a lot of what DL is saying is pretty sensible.
nykingfan Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 12:14 pm
@wavesinair,
There’s a lot there to digest, but most of it shows your distrust in DL…that’s fine, that’s your opinion…not all of us agree wtih you though.
I can ask the question..which GM during all of your years as a Kings fan has done a better job?
If you considered Nagy, Willsie, Calder, and the assortment of putrid goalies etc as part of the re-building plan, then you weren’t paying attention when he got hired and made those moves. If you were, you’d realize that he was building thru the draft and that would take time. He signed those bums to fill out the roster and get to the cap floor. He wasn’t going to stunt the growth of the draft picks by bringing them up when they weren’t ready.
As I mentioned above, you have to condemn the house, then clear the land before you can begin the re-building process. that wasn’t going to happen overnite.
You speak as if he has some diabolical plan to sabotage the Kings and their fans and enjoy making us suffer. I don’t know why you feel this way, but it seems somewhat misguided.
He has started something here that you haven’t witnessed since the Kings came into existence…a true rebuilding process that he plans to see thru to fruition..instead of the other pseudo rebuilds that were abandoned at the first sight of trouble or the availablitiy of over the hill guys like Rick Martin,Jerry Korab, etc….
Perhaps if the other GM’s would have stuck with Larry Murphy, Zhitnik, Daryl Sydor, etc there would have been no need for this purely evil man to come to LA and sabotage the franchise.
I just don’t know what you are looking for, or how you think he could have gotten us to a Stanley Cup or at least a contender any quicker with what we had.
I grew up watching Bill Torrey build the Islanders Franchise from nothing to a perennial Stanley Cup winner. It wasn’t done overnight. It took patience and a good hockey mind to accomplish it. The franchise was built thru the draft. DL doesn’t have the resume that a Toreey has, but he’s doing it the same way. Give him a chance to succeed. If it takes 5 more years, who cares? No matter who you bring in, it won’t get any better overnite. the only way it will is if you abandon the youth movement and try to be like the Rangers have been prior to this season…keep recycling the same old aged veterans and squeak into the 8th spot and a quick 1st round elimination. I’d rather give this a chance.
Crown Royal Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 12:40 pm
@nykingfan,
In fairness to wavesinair, I don’t think he’s complaining so much about DL’s rebuild but rather his statements covering the step backward we seem to have taken this year. He’s saying, I think, that DL is contending that he expected this step backward and isn’t buying that DL knew this was going to happen.
There has been no bigger DL supporter on this site from day one more than myself. I still believe in DL but agree that his recent rhetoric sounds like a cover for some the Kings recent problems.
wavesinair Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
@Crown Royal, Ahh! I was writing my comment below when you posted this. Thanks for the prop. Yep, fairness is all I’m asking. I’m happy to be disagreed with, just not completely misquoted.
wavesinair Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 12:44 pm
@nykingfan, I haven’t any idea where u get “diabolical plan to sabotage” when I directly said I like the plan. I can’t respond if u don’t even attempt fairness.
nykingfan Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
@wavesinair,
ok then leave that part out lol 
I just got the feeling that you think there’s something sinister behind what he says….If I’m wrong, it won’t be the 1st or last…more like the one millionth time (today)
I always respect your posts man..I may not always agree, but I do respect them….again, if I read it wrong, I apologize.
jet Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
@nykingfan, I agree with you 100%, but I retasted my lunch with the Korab reminder.
wavesinair Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
@nykingfan, No worries and thanks. Yeah, you read into what I said waayy too much and didn’t consider that we’re basically saying the same thing. Taking out that conspiracy theory then, you said, “I just don’t know what you are looking for.”
I want Dean Lombardi to raise the bar of this team publicly. I want to hear him put his ass on the line.
The difference between us is that I believe in holding what the GM says (or doesn’t say) up to scrutiny. I certainly don’t think we should have won the cup by now, but I do believe this team should be expected to make the playoffs.
The fact is, this GM hasn’t said that publicly. He gives himself outs and lowers expectations and acts like he knew these ‘spikes’ were going to happen when, if you look at it objectively, was impossible to know.
You hear the argument that we were ahead of schedule last year. Ok then, are we on schedule this year? I mean really. How long before we as a franchise can say, “we expect to be in the post season?”
Honestly. Think about it. Establishing a winning culture requires a demand, at some point in time, that says, “We are a perennial playoff team.” When does it happen?
You said, “If it takes 5 more years, who cares?” Wow. I do. 5 more years until what exactly? The organizational playoff proclamation I indicated above? The Cup?
The rebuild is over. The pieces are all in place. The system is lined up now to draft and develop. I LOVE this. We may not be a Cup contender now, but we are certainly a playoff contender. So I’m asking all of us to demand our GM say this.
The Kings should be expected by all of us to make the playoffs.
BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
@wavesinair,
Wow. Love this thread!
Waves–You want to cut through the B.S.? Good! Here it is/my slant:
1): The Los Angeles Kings of 2010-2011 CANNOT SCORE TO SAVE THEIR LIVES. This is not news. As far back as two years ago, this core group of players lost a boatload of games 0-1, 1-2, 2-3, some in OT (remember that tortuous year?). That team quickly slipped below .500, had a long long early season homestand where they could not win games, then played a whole lot of road games that virtually eliminated them. They ended up 5th worst in the league…
2): As Jonathan Quick goes, so goes this team. At one point late last year, JQ was poised to BREAK MARTIN BRODEUR’S ALL TIME SINGLE SEASON WINS RECORD… Say that again quietly to yourself, and sigh. JQ DID break the Kings’ all time win record for one season. A lot of those games were low scoring one goal games (where are you Quispie, to back me up statistically?). As a result, it should not surprise anyone that when JQ falters (albeit not to a terrible degree), so does this team. My point is, the Kings finally have drafted and groomed a big-time goalie–this is just not his best year. JQ’s best years are yet to come…
3): Within the minors/juniors are at least two lines worth of potential top six forwards. I won’t list them all here, but that statement is held to be true by a whole lot of hockey people much smarter than myself. When looking at this team 3 years ago before the season, it became apparent that 2011-2012 would be the year we as fans would start to find out about all these players, including the D-men and goalies. NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN THIS REGARD…
4): The Salary Cap and the name “Los Angeles Kings” are the top reasons why no top level free agent wears the Kings colors right at this moment. It is a question of viability over the long haul; the Kings have yet to prove a thing in this regard. It is likely the second biggest reason Ilya Kovalchuk turned down the reasonable Kings offer this summer. But that refusal–along with the abject failure of the respected New Jersey Devils this season–may ironically be the reason future free agents jump at the chance to be Kings Men in the future. This organization is playing for keeps, boys and girls, and financial sanity is part and parcel of the seriousness of the organization’s efforts…
5): I have serious reservations about the ability of Terry Murray to take the Kings to the next level–perpetual playoff competitiveness. This dovetails into #1–the Kings CANNOT SCORE! Despite all the efforts of the current staff, this team cannot seem to generate consistent scoring opportunities. Bobby Scribe has been doing a detailed breakdown of Kings entry chances the last week or so, and I think he is right. The Kings get trapped along the boards in the offensive zone, NO MATTER THE OPPONENT, and cannot get into central ice where the scoring chances are. Personally, I think it is a matter of player spacing, but who am I to know the answer? From what I see, the Kings do not maintain a certain distance between the three main attacking players near the puck, which would optimize passing and shot tipping. Spacing is important in basketball because the defenders need to be far enough apart so that one man cannot cover two players; I believe the same is true in hockey. If the puck is trapped along the boards, and two offensive players are tied up there with the puck and one defender, the second defender can cheat back towards the middle. If the scrum is won by the offense, a breakout or pass is needed to generate a shot on goal, and that would be essentially two or three Kings against five players, all cheating towards the middle to block a shot or a pass. The key–in watching the Red Wings beat this kind of defense–is to create a triangle which constantly moves together towards the net.
No matter what strategy will work, it is clear that TM’s strategy is not working offensively. Also, it is like DL says–it’s up to the players to get goals. They can’t just clump together to score–it just doesn’t work. A change of coaches may help in this regard. It’s not that TM is a bad coach, it simply may be he cannot take this team any farther along in the Quest for the Cup…
6): DL WILL NOT CHANGE COACHES UNTIL THE SEASON IS OVER. We–myself included–have got to get over ourselves. Stability is needed in this organization, and although there has been a certain plateau reached this season with increasing expectations from this team, these core players are not expected to win a Cup this season, bottom line.
So, there it is.
What happens this season is up to the current players in that dressing room.
May their efforts match the fans’ (that means OUR) passion!
Peace.
Out.
wavesinair Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 2:44 pm
@BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy, Good stuff Bako! Love the no BS. I agree with most of what you said. I do think people (including myself) tend to short change Murray’s ability to implement a more modern offensive system. I just think he is so stubborn sometimes that he can’t see the forest for the trees. I’m hoping that today’s practiced marked that change. I have to say that it was pretty amazing to see all the effort into changing up the offense, including the PP. As always, we need Quick to steal a few. Last night was the opposite. Man, what crummy timing for that to happen.
Cynic Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 1:50 pm
@wavesinair, Gotta chime in here…
I get what Waves is saying here. I’m with him. DL’s plan is fine. The rebuild is fine. Just don’t do what you did to piss off all the fans in SJ by (as someone so eloquently put it) ‘Flim-Flamming’ us with doublegoodspeak when the forward progress of the rebuild is halted or starts to backslide. Just call a spade a spade and quit being so protective of personnel. Everyone makes mistakes. Just don’t try to sell those mistakes as ordinary or common to the situation.
DL is entering the oven now. He’s been heating it up for 4 years. Now, something has to begin to bake. What comes out BETTER be a Stanley Cup and not more doublespeak. Here’s a DL style euphimism: Building a franchise is like baking a souffle’. Too much heat, wrong mix, bad timing, that souffle’ falls and you gotta start from scratch. The oven is heated. We have some ingredients….where are we in the creative process?
Even I cringed at my previous paragraph after re-reading it. 
Great post Waves. Nice analysis here. DL needs to be more forward in his decisiveness and (IMHO) less apologetic. If he learned anything from Bobby Clarke, it should be that. Just throw in some accountability while you’re at it DL.
LW Anybody? Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 2:37 pm
@Cynic, The worst part of this whole interview is that he is trying to convince us that it’s okay if we miss the playoffs again, which by the way would be the 5th out fo 6 years under his rule? Is that okay at this point? Really? I get the plan, and I know it takes time, but I don’t think his plan has been proven to work anywhere. He talks about Detroit, he talks about Chicago, but is he really following their winning formula? Not really.
wavesinair Reply:January 19th, 2011 at 2:47 pm
@Cynic, I love the souffle analogy! Classic. Yeah, you get what I’m rambling about. Flim-flam man says it all. Sometimes Lombardi has to stop with the east coast/used car salesman/polyester suit wearing/grease ball salesman crap and just say it like it is. I really believe he has to learn to be better with his public speaking. I mean, does he know he’s kind of a laughing stalk when it comes to his tendency to ramble? I wonder how aware he is and how much it comes across as, well, flim-flammy.
Waves, great site, this is what I’ve been looking for. Someone that calls a spade a spade. Looking at the game and how it is and not just with a biased heart. Great work Waves. Al