Don't you want this look in a Kings Uni?
I’m going to offer a counterpoint to any fears on the viewpoint of getting Nash & the price. It’s a solid viewpoint, but Nash would do things only a superstar in this league could do for our team. First though, let’s talk about what we would potentially give up:
This is rumored obviously and I’ve added more than usual because that is what it will take to get COL to trade Nash to us NOW as opposed to the off-season:
Nash & Curtis Sanford
FOR
Bernier, JJ, Penner, (One of Vey, Cliche, King, Muzzin or Forbort), ((1) 1st rounder or (2) 2nd rounders)
Now that may seem like a lot, but in reality, the Rangers will pay about the equivalent to get Nash NOW, so we MUST beat their offer. We need Nash more desperately than NYR, so we have to approach Howson (COL GM) that way.
What they get:
Young, potentially #1 ready NHL goalie
Solid 1-2 Offensive D-man to pair with Wisniewski
Penner to trade to TOR for a young scoring winger & draft pick
Young forward or D-man, their choice
Choice of very high pick or (2) relatively high picks
What we get:
Superstar, physically dominating #1 scoring NHL winger
Proven NHL backup
Now for the Intangibles:
The one who will benefit the most on the team from getting Nash is Kopitar. The one thing he doesn’t realize is that Nash will CHALLENGE Kopi to play out of his skin. Kopi is a solid 2 way player, but we all know there is another level to his game. We’ve seen flashes of it this season where he just completely takes over. Why do we not see that all the time? Only Kopi can answer that, but a superstar player like Nash with his NHL experience will definitely show up the weaknesses in Kopitar’s game if he doesn’t pick it up that notch we all know he can. Besides, I really believe that is what Kopitar wants and needs anyway: an equal or better player next to him. Nash has been losing for 7 years in COL and wants to win ASAP. I don’t think he’ll tolerate losing like he did in COL. He also knows these guys on a level we don’t as NHL hockey players. He’ll hit spots on a mental level others could not because he can actally DO what he proposes. Big difference from a coach saying it.
Bernier gets a chance to be a #1 in this league. A chance he’s definitely earned. The Kings have found their elusive #1 in Quick and he’s going to be here a LONG time if he hopefully agrees to be. Curtis Sanford has really impressed me the last 2 times I’ve seen him against us. He could be our Cory Schneider. Very capable backup and I’d love to see him here. Besides, wouldn’t you like to hear the Sanford & Son theme at Staples Center once in a while?
JJ would be tough to lose. His attitude and work ethic are great along with his cap hit. He has elements of his game that need polishing, but he is a 1-2 D-man. Columbus is near the area he grew up, so that change might not be so bad for him. COL needs a 1-2 D-man and JJ is the perfect fit. We have Slava Voynov to fill his shoes in the next year or so. JJ gone assures him a permanent roster spot and IMHO, Voynov > JJ when they both peak at their potential, but not by too much.
Penner simply makes cap space for Nash. Stoll will be gone too (Hopefully to Philly), We could trade Penner to Toronto directly, but I don’t think they have anyone we really want that Penner’s current low value could bring us. It would help COL though.
The 5 prospects I mentioned are all pretty much unknowns as to potential, but are all good players with upside. We can afford to lose any one of them and be just fine prospect pool wise:
- Cliche will never get a real shot at this team. He’s too old and done his time in the AHL. He really needs a true shot to make an NHL roster and COL will give him that.
- Vey still has upside, but is behind guys like King, Nolan, Moller, Holloway, Toffoli. We could afford to let him go.
- King is a wild card. He’s up with the big club now and playing well, but I believe his top potential is almost reached: 3rd line winger with body presence who can net 20 a year. Clifford & Nolan I believe will be the 2 filling 3rd line winger duties in the future (Together I hope), so King could be let go I believe.
- Muzzin can play. He got trumped by Voynov this year and should be on an NHL roster as a 5-6 right now. The wild card is his back and whether he’ll have problems in the future. Our D- is set. We could afford to move him and draft D-men the next few years to fill any gaps.
- Forbort is untested. Stay at home guy, still got a few years in college, we’ll draft new D-men to replace him easily enough.
The picks I think depend on the prospect they pick. For example, if they take Cliche, maybe they get (2) 2nd rounders. If they take Forbort, they get a 1st. All relative I believe.
Nash's first goal. Look how happy Kopi is! But not as happy as us fans...
All this being said, if the Kings do NOT make this move or something similar (Maybe Carter for a little less) RIGHT NOW, I believe we could be the next Columbus no matter how damn good we look on paper. Yes the system is messed up, yes I STILL WANT DAVE TIPPETT AS COACH, but getting Nash TODAY instead of later would get us into the playoffs, which is what we REALLY need to do. Actually, it’s what DEAN needs to do.
Big difference between adding Forbort or King or Cliche. But I highly doubt it would take Jack Johnson and Forbort. That would be ridiculous on top of everything else. It’s either or.
Bernier, Johnson, maybe a mid level prospect, and a 2nd round pick probably does it.
Bernier, Voynov or Forbort, mid level prospect, and a 1st probably does it.
Well, something in those realms, anyway.
If Im the Kings, i absolutely do either deal. The Kings need a player like Nash more than just about anyone, and he would fit with the Kings perfectly because he ups their skill quotient, which they need badly, without sacrificing size, which their offense is kind of based on, or was back when they still had enough big bodies to execute it.
Essentially, you’re dead on. Kopitar plays a cycle game, uses his size. Nash is great because he can add a different dimension on top of that, bring more speed and dynamism to that line and give it another dimension, while also having all the size and strength in the world to also play in the half court and support Kopitar in what he excels at.
So the Kings should definitely get Nash, even for those steep prices. They need him. The only circumstance where I feel you even think about not getting Nash is if you can get Carter for basically free, like a 2nd round pick just to take his contract. Because Carter is damn good too. Not as good as Nash, but hes very good, and if you can get him for way less than Nash, maybe that trade off is better.
Personally, if it were me, I would be looking to dump Penner, Greene, Stoll, and Im bringing in both Nash AND Carter. Whatever Columbus wants for Nash, maybe you add another 2nd round pick to that, and you offer to take both contracts together. Because as much as Nash will help, the Kings offense will still suck. No one player can fix all the holes they have. They need more than one guy, more than one top guy, even. All the other best teams have probably 4 elite forwards. The kings have one right now, maybe two if you count Richards, which, based purely on offense, Im not sure you can. Nash would give them 2 or 2.5, so that’s still way less than you need. 3.5 with Carter, now you can match Chicago, San Jose, etc a bit better.
Just my take. I wouldn’t expect it to happen though because Dean Lombardi is the Kings GM and he hasnt he knows how to build a good offense. Losing so many players and “good leaders” like Matt Greene at the expense of actual talent is not his style. Good people in the locker room seems much more important to Lombardi than good players on the ice, and when the time inevitably comes when you can’t have both perfectly, he always chooses the wrong one.
@Shark Circle:
I like these takes! Lombardi DID build a nice defense & goal tending core, but hockey, like life, is always about balance. I’m afraid Deano won’t do the aforementioned deals for Nash, maybe cuz he just doesn’t know how.
Nice ideas both waves and Shark Circle. Hey Lombardi, are you reading this? Get it done! Now!
Should’ve said Cynic & Shark Circle. Just noticed it from Insider blog. Love your post below also, Cynic!
Wait, is that pic in real time? Boy, waves, now you’re making use of that software!
@Shark Circle: I think the difference to Columbus between Cliche & Forbort is not big at all. What’s big to them is their current need: NHL ready player or long term prospect. They are just pieces until they contribute to actual NHL wins or losses.
I wrote a reply to CB14 regarding not responding to the cap issue on this thread that I wanted to share here as well because it brings up your option of getting Carter also. It’s an idea I’m all for, but I believe strongly it’ll take more than a 2nd rounder to get him, even if we tack him on to the Nash deal. Capwise, it’s very possible as my post illustrates:
I think the cap hit is irrelevant if Penner and Stoll are moved because as you mentioned, we’ll be good until Quick resigns. A lot can happen in 2 years. Just look at out team 2 years ago compared to now. Have you ever looked at the cap this way:
Your top line, top 2 d-men & goalie: 40 mil/season
Leaves roughly 24mil (Assuming the cap does not increase, don’t see it decreasing with the league’s improved revenue lately) for the remaining 17 roster spots. That’s an average of $1.41Mil per player. With the league minimum at $525K, you could have some players a 3mil a season and others at the league minimum with no problem. You’d be at the cap, but we’re practically there now!
Right now:
Kopi: 6.8mil
Penner: 4.25Mil
Richards: 5.75Mil
Doughty: 7mil
Johnson: 4.36mil
Quick: 1.8mil
TOTAL: 29.96Mil for your top 3 Forwards, Top 2 D, and #1 Goalie
Take into account the money coming off the books (More than likely) for next year:
Stoll: 3.6Mil
Parse: 900K
TOTAL: 4.5Mil
Put the Nash Trade in the Mix (Good for this and next season):
Nash: 7.8Mil
Kopitar: 6.8Mil
Williams: 3.65Mil
Doughty: 7Mil
Mitchell: 3.5Mil (Will probably Resign for the same money, but an untangible)
Quick: 1.8Mil
TOTAL: 30.55MIL
Not much of an increase to what we currently have, is it? You could essentially add Carter (5.27Mil) and drop Greene (2.95Mil) and only add about 2mil to the cap total. DON’T FORGET, Simon Gagne is a UFA the same year Quick is. We don’t even know if Gags will be back this season yet! That 3.5mil could easily go to Quicker.
There are SO many possibilities for us to spend to the cap ceiling and fit Nash AND Carter, take care of Quick and still make room for the prospects for the next 5-7 years, it’s crazy! We just have to move the right salaries to do it.
Loved your response Shark Circle! Really well thought out. Don’t be a stranger!
@Cynic: I posted a response to your comment on the insider, but since its late i will post it here as well.
I agree with you that it COULD be done, but that’s an extremly top heavy line-up in a league that values a balanced line-up. Nash, Kopi, Williams, Brown, and Richards make a combined 28 million. Doughty, Mitchell, Scuderi, and Greene make a combined 18 million. Quick would make about 7 million. That’s 53 million for 10 players. That leaves mabye 13 million for 13 players, and that’s with an increase in the salary cap which if you’ve noticed in all the 4 major sports, the players percentage has decreased in each of the collective barginning agreements.
Waves, your added pic just gave me chills! That would be Nash’s first shift of course…
Doubty and Bernier for Nash and Carter straight up!
Our D is strong and we need to get rid of the unproven, over hyped, hip check missing player that he is!